an unexpected room. then slow or fast, you're getting eaten. i'm just saying. thank you. i appreciate it. good afternoon. it is friday, august 16th. and as the situation in egypt grows more volatile, what's a u.s. administration to do? ♪ they're calling it friday of ra rage. >> egyptian security forces official little authorized the use of live fire. >> every time there's a moment of opportunity, it seems to be squandered. >> the government is trying to justify all the violence and death. >> i'm here to restore legitimacy. >> we will continue going to the streets peacefully until they kill us all. >> a coup is a coup. >> shoulded president suspend all usa aid. >> which he would be required to do if he called it a coup. >> if we withdraw the aid, we could lose the relationships developed over decades. >> it sends a message.

>> we have to look at what has been happening over the last ten years. >> after afghanistan and iraq, you have a president who is saying i'm not going to be so fast. >> it's not up to the united states to determine the future path for egypt. >> that's a task for the egyptian people. ♪ >> i'm joy reid in for martin bashir. one day after president obama condemned the violence on streets of egypt, not much has changed. calling for a quote day of rage, thousands of supporters of the muslim brotherhood and ousted president mohamed morsi filled the streets today with protests and rallies. many in the u.s. are calling for stronger language and actions from the administration including officially declaring the situation a military coup and thus cutting the $1.38 billion in military aid we provide egypt every year. the death toll is now at over 600 with an additional 4,000 or

moral injured and it continues to rise. reports saying that perhaps 80 or more protesters have been killed today alone. and the violent response from the military and police simply continues, as well. operating orders to use live ammo if necessary. as president obama returns to washington this weekend, he's expected to reassess our policies toward egypt in an attempt to wield whatever influence we still have. and hopefully, to work towards bringing this conflict to a swift and peaceful conclusion. let's get right to the nbc news foreign correspondent ayman mew ja who dean. the day of rage, assess for us the level of violence we're seeing right now. >> sure. we're seeing a very varying degree of violence in different protests that took place across the country. here in cairo, mo are than 28 different marches were organized to converge in this one major square. throughout the course confident day, we've seen for ourselves as

well as images on local satellite channels here' footage of civilians wielding weapons, firing weapons in the air and in some cases attacking government buildings, residential areas. so according to at least some of the evidence that we've seen, there was definitely enough to suggest that not all of these peaceful demonstrators or these demonstrations were peaceful. at the same time, there's also plenty of evidence to suggest security forces have used live ammunition, perhaps the greatest evidence is the death toll that emerged from today's demonstrations. all of their marches were supposed to converge in this one area. a makeshift field hospital is reporting at least 80 people have been killed. in other areas of the country, the death toll numbers in the tens, as well. we'll probably get more accurate numbers in the coming hours. the ministry of health says at least 27 people have been killed. obviously, this comes at a time when the country has gone into its third night of an imposed curfew by the interim

government. there's indication that the military's continuing deployments across varying parts of the city and the country to try to get the upper hand on this increasingly lawless situation stemming from the sustained protests which the brother hood is still calling for in the days ahead. >> give us a sense of i think in the u.s. there's the sense that the muslim brotherhood is being a small group that's fighting a government that was generally at least before the crackdown supported by the country. what is the level of support from your reporting of the muslim brotherhood in egypt? >> well, the muslim brother hood support has definitely waned as a result of two very important things. one the year that they ruled egypt, that of president mohamed morsi and the parliament. they have lost a lot of support, a lot of popularity. in fact, many in egypt you could say with a certain degree of confidence that the overwhelming majority of egyptians given the fact by the millions they turned out june 30th rejected the rule of the muslim brotherhood. there's no doubt they had their

core supporters and perhaps some sympathizers who still answer their calls to participate in these protests and these marches. no doubt the overwhelming majority of egyptians have rejected the brotherhood as a political and social organization for the time being. >> one more question the rejection of the brother hood aside, what is occur sense of the way people feel about the crackdown because it has been so bloody? >> well, this is the very difficult question that many egyptians are now grappling with because of the packet that they are very disturbed by some of the images of the military and the police cracking down on these protesters and their demonstrators. many people here have been shocked by the soaring death toll given the fact this has been one of the deadliesiest we in egyp in decades leaving them worndering whether the return of the authoritarian rule of former regimes has begun to return to egypt. there are a lot of indications there are some returning forces,

if you will -- once under the former president starting to emerge. former president of hosni mubarak, that they are slowly re-emerging on the political scene here. >> thank you. all right. let's get right to our panel, former assistant secretary of state p.j. crowley and steve clems. p.j., to you first. ayman was talking about the situation where you did have protests that were sit-ins. and the question being whether those were initially peaceful and were broken up violently by the government. is there an understanding whether the muslim brotherhood was attempting to use peaceful protest in the beginning? >> i don't think you can look at the death toll something approaching and the preponderance of power as the president said is with the government and with the military. so the whether there are some elements within the muslim brotherhood that have broken

from a pledge of nonviolence clearly much of the death toll here has to be laid as a responsibility of the government. i don't think that they just quite know how to do crowd control. >> and i mean, p.y., one more question to you. what is the real influence at this stage of the u.s. on the military government? they are the ones who whom we give this great deal of aid, ta we're supposed to be able to communicate with. is there a sense we have any concrete influence over that government now? >> we have the ability to give them good advice. as far as i can tell, we have been giving them good advice but they're not necessarily following it. we have influence. others in the region do, as well. but ultimately, this is a process and there will be an outcome that is egyptian and not american. >> and steve, i want to come to you because the source of our influence is understood to be the $1.3 billion in aid, the money that we give essentially to the military there. if that aid were to go away, wouldn't just the saudis and

others fill it in? would that at all make a dent in what seems to be a lack of ability to maconcrete change with that government? >> i would dispute the notion that mona loan is the source of our influence there. the source of our influence is that most of the egyptian command staff have worked their way through american military universities through the national defense university, have been engaged with and developed relationships with our command staff. over not just one year, five years, ten years, but decades. and so the human relationships between our military and their military are extremely deep. the partnership between the intelligence operatives we have in both countries is very, very deep. so the money coming on and off, if they flipped over to china, over to russia, to replace that money, there's no way they can replace the great depth, the tectonic depth of that relationship with the united states. so signaling the cancellation of the joint military exercises is a signal to those commanders that they've overstepped. i don't think they've gone nearly far enough in sending is

the signals they should to the command staff. it's not just the money at stake here. it is a very strew deep profound relationship between their commanders and ours and we should be using every element to try to get those command staff to realize they've gone over the line so far and in my view, one of the things we're not talking about is is general el sisi has to go. that general went so over the line commanding that staff. you can reach out to other generals and say you've got to let this guy go. >> we've talked about this. you feel they went too far in the sense we've had influence in building that command staff but one of the things that didn't get through was the notion if this is a democracy, you probably don't want the military to make political decisions and determine the government. that has now already happened. they've crossed that rubicon. is there something we sort of undertrained in the sense the military cannot just operate this way? >> i think from the moment that morsi was deposed and you had 14 million people in the streets in the 48 hours before when the military said they were going to

take action iffing there wasn't a political deal done, we should have known at that moment the military already decided it wanted to go to war against the muslim brotherhood. we should have put every red flag up we could. if you run the brotherhood back underground, you're not only creating a long-term problem for stability inside egypt, you're sending a signal consequential to us throughout the middle east. whether it's jordan, libya, this is going to be a hot spot that the really helps to destabilize, in my opinion, many other countries. >> last question to you, p.j. crowley. advise for a moment the american administration. what would you advise them that they should do now to send it the correct signal to egypt and to the world? >> well, i agree with everything that will steve just said. you know, if we call, they will pick up the phone and they will listen intently. but understand on the one hand, constructively, the egyptian military is the strongest and most respected institution in egyptian society. we saw that two years ago in the

constructive role they played in the tahrir square. on the other hand, they have a privileged position within egyptian society. they control roughly 40% of the egyptian economy. and they will view the muslim brotherhood as a threat to the that position. so ultimately, they're going to do whatever they feel is necessary regardless and they'll risk the relationship with the united states and the shorthand to assure the role they're going to play going forward. now, on the other side of the coin, we don't have the trouble communicating with the egyptian military. the real question is, can anyone get through to the muslim brotherhood because ultimately to get to the goal we've outlined here, a more inclusive democracy than existed under morsi, the brotherhood has to be enticed back into the political process. the more days we have like yesterday and today, the much more difficult that will be. >> steve, last question. how do you entice the muslim brotherhood back into a democratic system when the message that's been september to

them by empty morsi being taken away is that that's not the way the process is -- >> it's an extremely difficult task. they were coaxed into elections before. it's not been a new thing. under mubarak you had many groups studying the trappings of democracy or the democratic process as a way they thought they could come to power. you need to think about institutions struggling to come in. you come in and basically say in some formula, some new social contract is, maybe general el sisi goes. maybe you start with a second tier of leaders and say you need to push reset, everyone needs a chance to participate. it's very hard to sell that message but it's important that we try. >> steve clemens, p.j. crowley, thank you both. coming up, a summer of self-inflicted wounds for the gop. we'll look at the party's vote today and how it might impact the presidential debates for 2016. stay with us. it's back to school time and we're talking with maria

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commerce, education, and the, what's the third one there. >> are you just going to keep talking? >> are you going to let me finish what i have to say? >> oops. >> can we drop a little bit of the pious baloney. >> oh, newt. if only pious baloney wasn't what's on the menu. no, today your party voted to boycott any upcoming gop primary debates sponsored by an nbc network including this one along with cnn. possibly the biggest oops moment for the party. reince priebus has been pushing for this for a week saying this is about taking a stand for media support for hillary clinton. never mind the party doesn't

usually control the purse strings for debates. this may be more of a hollow threat. really, reince, aren't you doing this for the same reason these networks might do the features about clinton because it might rate well with the demo. >> a network that spends millions of dollars to spotlight hillary clinton is a network with an aub bias. that's a network that won't be hosting a single republican primary debate. >> and joining us now, democratic congresswoman louise slaughter of new york and msnbc contributor goldie taylor. congresswoman, doing democrats just high five every time they hear things like what priebus is saying? it's not as if the rnc puts on the primary debates anyway. he is just trying to placate a base that isn't helping him win elections. >> i watched all the debates of theirs and they were so instructive. presidential candidate who

couldn't remember three cabinet posts recommending people self-deport and telling critically ill people to just die. where else could you hear things like that. i'm going to miss is very much if they do that, but it is going to hurt them. democrats wouldn't even think about telling their candidates a thing like that. and goldie, politico had a scathing assessment of what's really wrong with the republican party. the sense that they're alienating every group they need to grow with, whether it's women, whether it's african-americans, latinos or gays. shouldn't they focused more on trying to stop offending those people rather than worry about who is producing an i documentary about hillary? >> they should be. when you placate a base this extreme, you literally nail your foot to the floor so you can't reach out to the middle when it comes time for a general election. you can't reach out to other constituencies who don't happen to live in this base. you just can't get there from here. to placate this base, by

pandering to them with a boycott of nbc, of cnn or anyone else who would not tow their line the way maybe fox news would i think is to cut off your nose just to spite your face. >> especially the fact at least at one point it was thought fox's entertainment unit might be producing the documentary in part. congresswoman, speaking to what. that is the part i liked. >> go ahead. >> i was just going to say, that was the part i liked the best when it was discovered that fox was looking to produce one of those documentaries. that sort of leaves them with no network at all almost. >> i think they could do it on rush limbaugh's show. that might be one of the options. >> or they could buy their own radio station. >> we've had at least one of the house members, one of your colleagues endorse birtherism this week. >> oh. >> how do you start to get through immigration reform when you have people talking about the cantaloupe thigh sizeded

thais of latinos? where do we go from here? >> they can't. i spend most of time at home here making sure everybody understands what's going on because our chance to get the house back is greatly enhances by the fact that the house does absolutely nothing and has spent about $53 million just on the votes to kill health care. did you know that? it cost $24 million a week to run the house of representatives. we've done practically nothing. i want everybody to know that. we talk about deficit reduction and we cut this and that, and yet every week when the house is in session we waste all that kind of money. it's deplorable. i really cannot understand what they're doing. i really enjoy the business about ted cruz trying to say he's an american because his mother was american. so was barack obama's. i sometimes wonder if they know that hawaii is part of the united states. >> i'm sorry. geography has a liberal bias.

i want to go back to goldie for a moment. so one of the things that's happening this week is you're starting to see the fashions of the party. you do have the ted cruz faction that wants to make it the party extremely doctrinaire. the rubio faction is now in retreat. in addition, chris christie. he might be the most fascinating member of the go right now because he's trying to tell them, i can win in blue states. now it seems like he's trying to trend a little bit lish tear yab. we've got news he may be easying the r the -- easying the tree strictions on children having access to marijuana. >> you know, i am one of the people who doesn't believe in a chris christie candidacy. he does have to appeal to the southern very red states and those states that move to the west, arizona, idaho, new mexico, oklahoma.

places where chris christie does not play no matter if he decided to legalize all marijuana for all americans. so i think that's real problematic for him. does he do moderately well in the northeast? absolutely. will he get the opportunity to show that he can reach across the aisle, i'm not sure that he -- i'm not sure he gets that opportunity given where this gop is today. >> congresswoman? >> i think being a northeasterner hurts him desperately. they don't care if he can win in blue states. they care whether or not he believes that obama should not get anything passed. that we don't help people in states in trouble like his was during sandy or tornado or hurricane, excuse me. but no, i don't think he has a chance. his philosophy doesn't match theirs. they appeal to a very narrow part of the country. one small section of the country. and they're continuing to do it and making it more apparent every day. god bless them. >> god bless them.

goldie, the last word on this. if it's not going to be the ted cruz faction because he won't be able to get past any internal birthers. >>en an he's born out of the country. so we can mark him off. >> if you can't go with marco rubio because he dared to do immigration reform or chris christie because he's from the night of the, who do they have that's potentially viable in 20816? >> you know, we didn't know the who the democratic nominee would be in 2008 before barack obama stepped onto the stage. i'm not sure we have seen who the republican nominee will be at this point. there's some great names out there. there's marquee names who can certainly raise the money. paul could raise the money. i've heard that governor cacic is testing the water today. and so there are a number of names, governors from big states thinking about it. you know, i don't write off cruz. i don't write off marco rubio. any of those names. we don't know who this nominee is going to be.

there are some people like michele bachmann we can take off the table. i think this really remains to be seen. it's going to be a very, very very open field. they're not going to make what they think is the same mistake they made the last two times around. they're not going to nominate someone who does not carry the gop party mantle with those governing principles and they'll stick to that and their narrow base. >> one almost hopes it's ted cruz just to confuse the birthers. thank you both. all right. stay with us. the day's top lines are coming up. congratulations, you've made it, mr. president. >> this is the height of achievement. >> really. >> to be made fun of by the rodeo clown is actually success. this is a big deal. if you get made fun of by the clown, have you made it. it guides you to a number that will change your

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servant that serves america. the butler is you, you're serving america. the butler is me, i'm serving america through my cinema. and he happens to be looked down on. that's how we look at -- how we look at class, how we address class in america. which transcends race too. >> and you'll see martin bashir's full interview with lee daniels director of the butler" coming up in a few minutes. next the day's top lines. look who has a new appreciation for the performing arts. >> this is an artist. a very brave artist, believe it or not, rodeo clowns. they could he get mauled by a bull at any time. this is art, this is entertainment. a good athlete? no. oh dad, you remember my friend alex?

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stupidity, here are today's "top lines." can't you all take a joke? >> my gosh, somebody making fun of a president? >> have you ever been to a rodeo. >> it's obama. >> hey, let me tell these people who we got helping >> it's a joke. that's all it was. >> it's mere t pure haircy. >> certainly not one of the finer moments. >> this is a very brave artist, rodeo clowns. they could get mauled by a bull at anytime. >> we're going to smoke obama. >> what was the violence threatened there. >> obama, they're coming for you. >> i'm so glad when lincoln was president there weren't cartoons portraying him -- oh, wait, there were. >> you compare it to lincoln, are you sure you want to do that? i don't think so. >> 50ids say lighten up. >> here's how you react to a rodeo clown at a state fair. he's a rodeo clown at a state fair. >> it's a joke. >> the clown's been fired. the announcer has resigned. and countless bulls have been

jabbed in the gonads with electric cattle products. >> today i declare myself officially a rodeo clown. >> every president is always made fun of. they are the subject of ridicule. >> i'd officially declare that we are all rodeo clowns. >> maybe the mask was intended as a compliment. >> this is the height of achievement. >> really? >> to be made fun of by the rodeo clown is actually success. >> there is no higher honor than having a clown run around a dirt arena wearing a grotesque mask of your face while the announcer ask the cheering crowd who wants to see this guy trampled. >> we have to get beyond being anti-obama. >> barack obama has not thanked the rodeo clown. i guess i shouldn't be surprised. he never seemed grateful when the tea party honored him with the charlie chaplin mustaches. >> yeah, let's get to our panel. toure, co-host of the "cycle" here and msnbc contributor jimmy williams. toure, what is wrong with us that we can't appreciate the special artistry of a racist

rodeo clown? >> i mean, look, let me say one thing that being a rodeo clown is difficult and dangerous work. that small piece of what will glenn beck said in that top lines which is maybe the best i've ever seen, that small piece is true. ultimate will i what we have is like the republican party the conservative movement saying racist things, using dog whistles and then going, what racism? what are you talking about? you've been using the southern strategy for over 40 years to work racial anxiety to pull in voters to vote against their economic interests and still you're like what racismle? i don't understand what you're talking about. it's kind of ridiculous. they have this way of saying these ridiculous absurd things and then go, oh, now you're going to call me a racist. it's disingenuous. it's disgusting and you know, just that they keep saying these outrageous things is just sort of like expected at this point, but it brings in voters in terms

of the southern strategy. >> you know what, i won't take credit for the term, blessings for bigots. they almost want to be thanked for it. i want to read you a bit of wisdom from peggy noonan, famous for writing slip the earthly bonds from reagan. thee said let me suggest a classy move, that might go over well. from his vineyard vacation spot, he should have the press office issue a release saying his reaction to end fooing out a rodeo clown was rudely spoofing had ip was so what saying he loves free speech including did he riggs directed at him. and hopes these politicians damning the clown and the crowd would pipe down and relax. that would be graceful and nice. wouldn't it? but he would never do it. he gives every sign of being a person who believes he shouldn't be made fun of. if it is, it's probably racially toned because why else would you make fun of him. >> discuss. >> this is the same person peggy

noonan than said ronald reagan was completely not to blame at all for iran-contra, that it was bad handling by his staffers that he was not to blame, et cetera, et cetera. i'm not -- i'm confused as to why this same litmus test that she uses for ronald reagan she can't use for the current occupant of the oval office. now, let's set aside miss noonan's information here which is disinformation. it's actually -- it's snarky and it's beneath her. let's talk about what this is. this is purely 1,000% race-baiting. in missouri, okay, there are two parts to m, by the way. there's the part people don't talk about, the racial part and then the cosmopolitan part of missouri, if you will. i know racism. my father was a bigot. he was a racist. he thought me the "n" word was a perfectly fine word to use. one day when i came out of the closet, it occurred how would you like it if someone called you a faggot. i bet you ten bucks people don't like it when you use the "n"

word. tit-for-tat. when you put a rodeo clown in a pile of crap and dirt in missouri and you put a black face on him and say the word obama 100 times, if you're going to tell me it's not racism, you go back and you live in missouri because in real america, that's modern day lynching and racism and nothing less. >> toure, the interesting thing. >> joy -- >> go ahead. >> everything that jimmy said was courageous and important and powerful. the break you've had in your family in your personal work to move past what you were taught inside your nuclear family and also i see within all this with peggy noonan is this constant way of we are blamed for noticing racism when we notice racism, then we are the racists injecting race into the conversation where it did not exist. when you put this sort of grotesque obama mask on somebody and then say we're going to get that person and he becomes a proxy for your anger about a

black person being president, being in power, and then just like, well, you're a racist for noticing that. we didn't notice the racism. none of us said the "n" word. so we're not racists. it just gets maddening and frustrating. it's signal jamming in that we can't call it racism because then suddenly we are the racists. >> toure got to something i wanted to talk about. there does seem to be this obsession on the right with them being able to call people racist and doing it a lot. constantly saying you know what? we're going to own this notion of calling people racist but we also want to pass for being able to do things that are received as racist and how dare you even point it out. >> you blame the blamer is what you enunder doing here. i used to be a republican. you know, when i was a kid, ronald reagan could do no wrong. but one day i woke up and naught maybe he did things wrong and

right. that's irrelevant. in conservative circles, you don't talk about racism or sexual orientation. you don't talk about abortion. >> there's a desire to want to the really push the line, particularly the party is becoming neo-con federate. they want to get right up to that line. what is this obsession with wanting to do that? rush limbaugh wanting to say the "n" word. there seems to be this desperation to push the line on race baiting >> understand, the only time that will republicans talk about the issue of race is when it is about them being called racist. otherwise they won't address the issue. have they dressed inequality in american schools between black and white students no, they have not. have they talked about the issue of food stamps other than say there are more people on them under obama than before? no, except to leave it out of the ag bill because oh, my gosh, that's the welfare. remember the movie st. elmo's fire" and they were around that georgetown dining room table and the mother says did you hear about so and so.

she has cancer. she whispers it. that's what you do you in republican circles. you talk about sexual orientation and race and abortion and women and this sort of thing quietly but you never speak of it publicly until you're called a racist or homophobe or misogynist. >> lee at water talked about this. you don't want to be a racist and you don't want to feel like a racist and like you're voting for a racist but the white racial anxiety crucial to rallying the wagons in this 90% white party is critical. so we're using these dog whistles and it's sort of a shield of saying, we're not racist. they're racist for calling us racist and then you're able to go about your day not feeling a racist for being against immigration reform which has this is obvious racial undertone being for gun safety which has this rather obvious racial undertone, being against the welfare state which has this is extraordinarily obvious racial undertone and on and on. >> then you get to also be steve

king and call for a rodeo clown summit at the white house. that would be awesome. thank you very much, toure and jimmy you williams. appreciate it. coming up, the nsa pushes back against "the washington post" and allegations an of mass private sit violations. stay with us. [ man ] 5, 4... [ command center ] this is command center. [ man ] ...3, 2, 1. [ command center ] all systems go. [ female announcer ] introducing swiffer steamboost powered by bissell. steam-activated cleaning pads penetrate deep. [ command center ] we have lift off. [ female announcer ] don't just clean your floor. boost it.

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delong, the director of compliance with the nsa. and so far, he's made a few points in an attempt to push back against that "washington post" article. first he said no one at the nsa tolerates mistakes or thinks that mistakes are okay. when mistakes are determined they try to correct eb them as quickly as possible. he tried to put the number of mistakes into context, that report of thousands of instances, he made the point that over the course of just one month, the nsa conducts about 20 million queries. so according to mr. delong, the fraction of mistakes is really minuscule when you look at that 20 million figure. and then he also made one more point, joy, which is that some of those mistakes occurred with foreign nationals. so he really tried to put this into that broader context to tamp down some of the fuhrer that emerged today. a lot of that. coming from capitol hill, of

course. nancy pelosi came out and said that the reports in the "washington post" were disturbing. patrick leahy who is the chair of the senate judiciary committee said that he plans to conduct another hearing about this. no response yet from the white house but i can tell you that president obama will undoubtedly be dealing with this when he returns from vacation. of course, he's mapped out a second term agenda but this issue with the nsa continues to dog him both on vacation and when he returns. >> very quickly, is there an expectation the president will say anything else on egypt when he comes back? >> reporter: i would anticipate some continued white house response on egypt. we know that he is being briefed regularly here while he's on cation in martha's vineyard. he was briefed this morning by his national security visor susan rice. this is obviously something that is quite concern together white house. joy? >> kristen welker, thank you. coming up, a conversation with lee daniels, director of one of this year's most talked

about films "the butler." we hear more about why he made the film and his thoughts on the country's progress on civil rights. we're back in a moment. humans. we are beautifully imperfect creatures living in an imperfect world. that's why liberty mutual insurance has your back, offering exclusive products like optional better car replacement, where if your car is totaled, we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. call... and ask an insurance expert about all our benefits today,

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white man's finally say what he wants us to be. >> what are you talking about? he just won the academy award. he's breaking down barriers. >> by being white? by acting white. sidney poitier is nothing but a rich uncle tom. >> look at you. all puffed up. your hat on your head. coming in here, saying whatever you want. you need to go. >> what? >> get the hell out of my house! >> get out. >> everybody just -- >> i'm sorry, mr. butler. i didn't mean to make fun of your hero. >> everything you are and

everything you have is because of that butler. >> that was a clip from lee daniels' "the butler" telling the story of cecil gains who served at the white house through seven presidents from 1957 through 1986. the film is based on the story of eugene allen who viewed the history of our country from the civil rights movement through watergate and beyond all from within the walls of the white house. martin bashir sat down with the film's director this week. >> and i'm delighted to say i'm joined by the very director of the butler," lee daniels himself. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon to you, sir. >> it's a great privilege to have you here. >> thank you. >> what was it about mr. allen's story that inspired you to make a movie? what specifically was it? >> it was the father and son. it was the father, i have a -- at the time, i got the script, my son was 13. and it was a love story and you

know, my friends had problems with their kids, but i said no, my kid, he's wonderful. but all of a sudden at 13, he turned on me. i would say day, he would say night. i would say go to bed, he would say hell no. when does it stop? the film it stops. and i wasn't -- i didn't set out to make an important civil rights movie. it wasn't till we started showing some of the atrocities that happened i thought oh, this is not just a father and son. >> so it started in your mind between the relationship between this apparently subservient father who does deferring right in the workplace and his son who refuses to accept institutional racism and fights for that? >> correct. >> and yet, the movie is sympathetic to the father. >> there's no right. there's no right, there's no wrong with it. i think it's generational. and for example, when i showed my son the film, i'm nervous because he's the only one that i know that will go for the kill.

and you know, he said i loved the movie, dad. i said haven't we come a long way? this is an important step in film making for black people. and he was like no, he said it's not important until i see myself as spiderman. i want to see a 17-year-old spider-m spider-man. i'm thinking it's no different than it was with cecil and louis, our two leads. >> yeah. politics doesn't seem to come into it for cecil. he sees his role as one of public service. and there's immense dignity and pride in what he's doing. he's almost like a soldier. it doesn't matter whether he's serving a democrat or a republican. and there's a great deal of stature and beauty that's built out of that, particularly when oprah winfrey, the character she plays, slaps the boy when he casts aspersions on the notion that a butler is nothing. >> correct. the butler is something. the butler is something. and. >> what is the butler? >> the butler stands for every

servant that serves america. the butler is you. you're serving america. the butler is me, i'm serving america through my cinema. and he happens to be looked down on. that's how we look at -- how we look at class, how we address class in america which transcends race, too. >> the film itself starts with the civil rights movement and ends with the inauguration of the first black president of the united states. and yet, as we've seen with seconds 4 of the voting rights act knocked down, as we've seen in attempts to suppress the vote, as we've seen with the continuing racist animus towards this president, we haven't come that will far yet, have we? >> when i did the movie, when i began the movie,ing the words any white man could kill any

black man and get away with it, the law was against us. it was notten 0 our side. when i am making a mean, i'm in a bubble. and i don't like leaving that bubble for anything. and when i came out of that bubble, trayvon martin happened. i no dale that trayvon martin happened. i don't watch the news. i neglect my children. so him. >> you grow a beard. >> in the bubble of making the film. >> sure. >> so how ironic and so i thought, i thought about that. also i thought about, you know, when we do that scene with lyndon johnson who passes that incredible voting rights bill. >> remarkable. >> and i come out and the supreme court has done what they've done, you know, i wonder. >> and so when you look at the film on reflection, how far have we really come? >> i think we've come enormously

far, but my son doesn't seem to feel so. which is generational. it goes back to, you know, the dna of what my film is about. >> final question and briefly, what do you hope that viewers will take from the movie? what is the theme that you want them to take with them? >> that we need more heroes. we need more people that are willing to put their lives on the line for freedom. >> that's a wonderful motivation to make the movie. lee daniels, thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> stay with us. we'll be right back. and secretly served it up in the heart of peach country. it's a fresh-over. we want you to eat some peaches and tell us what you think. they're really juicy. it must have just come from the farm. this right here is ideal for me. walmart works directly with growers to get you the best quality produce they've ever had. what would you do if i told you all this produce is from walmart? wow! is it really? (laughter)

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